1
00:00:19,189 --> 00:00:16,760
[Music]

2
00:00:21,439 --> 00:00:19,199
I'm from Plainville Georgia and I went

3
00:00:23,210 --> 00:00:21,449
to berry college and I've got a degree

4
00:00:25,580 --> 00:00:23,220
in physics they're one of the first two

5
00:00:29,569 --> 00:00:25,590
women to get a physics degree at school

6
00:00:33,470 --> 00:00:29,579
my roommate and I we we tried a lot of

7
00:00:37,040 --> 00:00:33,480
different majors and we went to the soda

8
00:00:40,070 --> 00:00:37,050
shop there on campus then we decided

9
00:00:43,369 --> 00:00:40,080
well let's just see who comes in let's

10
00:00:46,340 --> 00:00:43,379
watch the men and we did and we decided

11
00:00:49,850 --> 00:00:46,350
hey the best-looking men are in physics

12
00:00:52,100 --> 00:00:49,860
that's what we're going to major in it

13
00:00:55,100 --> 00:00:52,110
as it turned out we married

14
00:00:57,560 --> 00:00:55,110
it's married wonderful people were

15
00:01:00,410 --> 00:00:57,570
gravitating towards physics because the

16
00:01:02,390 --> 00:01:00,420
Sputnik had launched a good bit earlier

17
00:01:04,670 --> 00:01:02,400
you know and seemed like the natural

18
00:01:08,780 --> 00:01:04,680
thing to do to get into something that

19
00:01:12,499 --> 00:01:08,790
you could help the country and I applied

20
00:01:14,990 --> 00:01:12,509
for a fellowship to the University of

21
00:01:18,020 --> 00:01:15,000
Alabama mainly because my boyfriend was

22
00:01:20,630 --> 00:01:18,030
going there and I did get the fellowship

23
00:01:23,750 --> 00:01:20,640
so I was in my first year of graduate

24
00:01:25,880 --> 00:01:23,760
school there and a friend was attending

25
00:01:27,380 --> 00:01:25,890
school there and she says let's go up to

26
00:01:29,570 --> 00:01:27,390
Huntsville they're hiring a lot of

27
00:01:32,330 --> 00:01:29,580
people of course at that point in time I

28
00:01:36,290 --> 00:01:32,340
was tired of not having any money so we

29
00:01:43,410 --> 00:01:36,300
came up and we were hired so that's how

30
00:01:49,560 --> 00:01:46,980
of course the group that hired was

31
00:01:51,870 --> 00:01:49,570
located out on the parkways so we met

32
00:01:53,460 --> 00:01:51,880
with them first and they said well what

33
00:01:55,680 --> 00:01:53,470
are your interests and I said well I'm

34
00:01:59,340 --> 00:01:55,690
interested in what goes on in the

35
00:02:01,260 --> 00:01:59,350
laboratory so they gave me an interview

36
00:02:03,210 --> 00:02:01,270
into the materials and processes

37
00:02:06,990 --> 00:02:03,220
laboratory and of course at that point

38
00:02:09,389 --> 00:02:07,000
in time you came in all dressed up with

39
00:02:12,930 --> 00:02:09,399
gloves owned and that kind of thing and

40
00:02:15,030 --> 00:02:12,940
visited the people and I got an offer

41
00:02:16,860 --> 00:02:15,040
right off and of course you worked with

42
00:02:20,550 --> 00:02:16,870
someone you know you weren't out on your

43
00:02:26,010 --> 00:02:20,560
own at least initially but when you had

44
00:02:28,080 --> 00:02:26,020
a problem there were so many experts not

45
00:02:30,930 --> 00:02:28,090
only in the materials and processes

46
00:02:33,780 --> 00:02:30,940
laboratory but in other areas at the

47
00:02:36,600 --> 00:02:33,790
centre in structures in avionics and

48
00:02:39,300 --> 00:02:36,610
they would say well go ask so-and-so

49
00:02:41,130 --> 00:02:39,310
about that problem and it was just

50
00:02:44,010 --> 00:02:41,140
wonderful to have all these people that

51
00:02:46,350 --> 00:02:44,020
you could talk to and I know one of the

52
00:02:48,600 --> 00:02:46,360
first things that I was asked to do we

53
00:02:51,600 --> 00:02:48,610
were looking at the design of some slip

54
00:02:54,030 --> 00:02:51,610
rings and I had never made an

55
00:02:59,940 --> 00:02:54,040
engineering drawing and I much less put

56
00:03:01,560 --> 00:02:59,950
a tolerance on it and so I sketched up

57
00:03:05,970 --> 00:03:01,570
something we have plenty of machine

58
00:03:07,890 --> 00:03:05,980
shops around and gave them the drawing

59
00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:07,900
or sent the drawing to them and I got a

60
00:03:13,410 --> 00:03:10,810
call to come over and see these folks

61
00:03:15,630 --> 00:03:13,420
and here was the head of the machine

62
00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:15,640
shop about three or four technicians

63
00:03:23,610 --> 00:03:20,290
standing around him and I said are you

64
00:03:28,290 --> 00:03:23,620
sure you want those tolerance hun I said

65
00:03:31,770 --> 00:03:28,300
yes but they talked me out of it I mean

66
00:03:36,630 --> 00:03:31,780
a six millions was a little bit much on

67
00:03:38,550 --> 00:03:36,640
a slippery tiredness but that taught me

68
00:03:40,289 --> 00:03:38,560
a little lesson hey let other people

69
00:03:43,410 --> 00:03:40,299
look at your drawing before you submit

70
00:03:48,600 --> 00:03:43,420
it to be made oh they were so nice to me

71
00:03:51,600 --> 00:03:48,610
in I never felt like I wasn't liked in

72
00:03:53,880 --> 00:03:51,610
the workforce or was a discriminated

73
00:03:55,740 --> 00:03:53,890
against or anything like that they were

74
00:03:57,330 --> 00:03:55,750
very helpful and

75
00:04:02,759 --> 00:03:57,340
I thought it was just a great place to

76
00:04:07,979 --> 00:04:04,589
I guess I never thought about it as

77
00:04:11,430 --> 00:04:07,989
mentor I just tried to do the best I

78
00:04:14,880 --> 00:04:11,440
could in in you know I might have a

79
00:04:15,809 --> 00:04:14,890
project assigned and I would go give my

80
00:04:18,449 --> 00:04:15,819
report

81
00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:18,459
you know both verbally and written to my

82
00:04:23,360 --> 00:04:21,010
supervisor but it wasn't like somebody

83
00:04:30,070 --> 00:04:23,370
standing around to help you all the time

84
00:04:34,629 --> 00:04:32,290
the group that I worked in was called

85
00:04:36,430 --> 00:04:34,639
lubrication and surface physics and of

86
00:04:39,730 --> 00:04:36,440
course at that point in time there were

87
00:04:42,969 --> 00:04:39,740
a lot of mechanisms rubbing and sliding

88
00:04:45,969 --> 00:04:42,979
mechanisms on spacecraft and you needed

89
00:04:48,999 --> 00:04:45,979
to know how to you know reduce the

90
00:04:51,219 --> 00:04:49,009
friction on those surfaces and make sure

91
00:04:54,100 --> 00:04:51,229
it operated and of course you could use

92
00:04:56,680 --> 00:04:54,110
greases or oils or anything like that so

93
00:05:00,310 --> 00:04:56,690
we develop new lubricants dry films

94
00:05:03,219 --> 00:05:00,320
using molybdenum disulfide which you

95
00:05:04,930 --> 00:05:03,229
know did rely on having oxygen to give

96
00:05:11,290 --> 00:05:04,940
it its lubricating properties like

97
00:05:13,719 --> 00:05:11,300
graphite this so we developed those we

98
00:05:17,110 --> 00:05:13,729
had some initials that we use for these

99
00:05:19,330 --> 00:05:17,120
lubricants MLF which really stood for

100
00:05:21,010 --> 00:05:19,340
mighty low friction but we didn't tell

101
00:05:23,469 --> 00:05:21,020
anybody that's what it is suited for and

102
00:05:25,749 --> 00:05:23,479
then we would give it a name and it

103
00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:25,759
depending on whether we really liked

104
00:05:31,870 --> 00:05:28,930
that person or if it had a high

105
00:05:35,320 --> 00:05:31,880
probability working we gave it a

106
00:05:38,409 --> 00:05:35,330
person's name that we liked we were

107
00:05:40,570 --> 00:05:38,419
pretty much in the trenches you know we

108
00:05:42,850 --> 00:05:40,580
could only really see what we were doing

109
00:05:45,760 --> 00:05:42,860
in the laboratory but there were lots of

110
00:05:48,670 --> 00:05:45,770
things going on with very busy time well

111
00:05:52,149 --> 00:05:48,680
there were a few that came in the lab

112
00:05:54,790 --> 00:05:52,159
and of course dr. von Braun walked

113
00:05:56,939 --> 00:05:54,800
through a few times since they said the

114
00:05:59,740 --> 00:05:56,949
door wanted to know what you were doing

115
00:06:02,320 --> 00:05:59,750
so I think I experienced that a couple

116
00:06:05,939 --> 00:06:02,330
of times plus we had a lot of visitors

117
00:06:08,950 --> 00:06:05,949
from the outside that came in to see

118
00:06:10,719 --> 00:06:08,960
what we were doing like we had dr.

119
00:06:14,050 --> 00:06:10,729
Christian Barnard's you know the South

120
00:06:17,770 --> 00:06:14,060
African heart doctor that came in and

121
00:06:20,920 --> 00:06:17,780
James Webb came in had his children with

122
00:06:23,740 --> 00:06:20,930
him and we got to tour them around and

123
00:06:26,020 --> 00:06:23,750
one of the things I got to which I

124
00:06:29,110 --> 00:06:26,030
thought was funny at the time was when

125
00:06:32,320 --> 00:06:29,120
Art Carney was making a movie in town

126
00:06:34,149 --> 00:06:32,330
and I was asked to show him through the

127
00:06:36,219 --> 00:06:34,159
Space and Rocket Center what the only

128
00:06:38,830 --> 00:06:36,229
thing I'd ever seen him do was play

129
00:06:42,279 --> 00:06:38,840
Norton with Jackie Gleason you know and

130
00:06:43,300 --> 00:06:42,289
I kept thinking he's gonna jump into

131
00:06:46,870 --> 00:06:43,310
that

132
00:06:50,620 --> 00:06:46,880
for son but no he's very serious guy and

133
00:06:53,740 --> 00:06:50,630
I enjoyed it it's been a lot of time

134
00:06:59,680 --> 00:06:53,750
with him he's asked a lot of interesting

135
00:07:06,460 --> 00:07:03,160
I only went to the Cape once watched one

136
00:07:09,340 --> 00:07:06,470
launched and that was Apollo 8 I think

137
00:07:13,500 --> 00:07:09,350
the way it came about was I was going to

138
00:07:16,660 --> 00:07:13,510
Alabama Missouri football game at

139
00:07:19,540 --> 00:07:16,670
Jacksonville and so I went on down to

140
00:07:22,570 --> 00:07:19,550
see the launch you know we're just all

141
00:07:28,700 --> 00:07:22,580
you you know you you just sit there and

142
00:07:36,249 --> 00:07:33,140
it was that NASA was such a capable

143
00:07:39,650 --> 00:07:36,259
organization we could do anything in

144
00:07:43,010 --> 00:07:39,660
large spacecraft doing things had never

145
00:07:47,659 --> 00:07:43,020
been done before to me it stands it's

146
00:07:51,260 --> 00:07:47,669
the big icon that we look at and should

147
00:07:59,729 --> 00:07:51,270
keep that in mind when we do these tough

148
00:08:06,209 --> 00:08:04,259
Huntsville was on the brink of becoming

149
00:08:08,849 --> 00:08:06,219
a big city

150
00:08:10,739 --> 00:08:08,859
there weren't any places to live I was

151
00:08:16,289 --> 00:08:10,749
fortunate had a friend that lived here

152
00:08:18,389 --> 00:08:16,299
so I stayed with her until we could find

153
00:08:21,809 --> 00:08:18,399
an apartment and it was actually down

154
00:08:26,009 --> 00:08:21,819
tents one of the lawyers offices now and

155
00:08:29,489 --> 00:08:26,019
we drew straws who got what room well I

156
00:08:32,429 --> 00:08:29,499
got the hall which was okay with me it

157
00:08:36,059 --> 00:08:32,439
was easy to just walk around and do what

158
00:08:43,740 --> 00:08:36,069
you wanted to in a small town but you

159
00:08:49,200 --> 00:08:47,160
it was almost like we were isolated from

160
00:08:51,420 --> 00:08:49,210
that kind of thing and it may be the

161
00:08:53,340 --> 00:08:51,430
fact that we were out on the Arsenal and

162
00:08:56,400 --> 00:08:53,350
you know and separate from other

163
00:08:57,660 --> 00:08:56,410
organizations so you didn't see a lot of

164
00:09:00,300 --> 00:08:57,670
that at all

165
00:09:05,820 --> 00:09:00,310
actually I think I was always out there

166
00:09:08,460 --> 00:09:05,830
on my own doing what it took and so he

167
00:09:11,910 --> 00:09:08,470
wasn't looking left or right and seeing

168
00:09:16,050 --> 00:09:11,920
these poor women waiting for their turn

169
00:09:21,370 --> 00:09:16,060
they weren't there so I just did what I

170
00:09:29,380 --> 00:09:26,500
well I was involved in the last mission

171
00:09:30,850 --> 00:09:29,390
in terms of having a fluids experiment

172
00:09:33,010 --> 00:09:30,860
we were going to see how the fluids

173
00:09:35,800 --> 00:09:33,020
reacted in that low gravity environment

174
00:09:37,450 --> 00:09:35,810
and to look at you know effective

175
00:09:39,850 --> 00:09:37,460
surfactants on them and that kind of

176
00:09:43,030 --> 00:09:39,860
thing when the shield came off our

177
00:09:46,270 --> 00:09:43,040
laboratory being materials and processes

178
00:09:48,430 --> 00:09:46,280
we developed the umbrella and of course

179
00:09:51,490 --> 00:09:48,440
they did away with one astronomy

180
00:09:53,560 --> 00:09:51,500
experiments so we could use that port to

181
00:09:56,290 --> 00:09:53,570
put the umbrella out but we developed

182
00:10:01,630 --> 00:09:56,300
the coating and and that was a

183
00:10:02,380 --> 00:10:01,640
round-the-clock activity and fortunately

184
00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:02,390
it worked

185
00:10:07,510 --> 00:10:05,090
you had to subject it to the

186
00:10:13,540 --> 00:10:07,520
environments of space you simulated

187
00:10:16,050 --> 00:10:13,550
environments like the Sun you know are

188
00:10:21,790 --> 00:10:16,060
the optical properties of the material

189
00:10:25,110 --> 00:10:21,800
enough to main to be maintained and it

190
00:10:27,700 --> 00:10:25,120
doesn't out gas it's resistant to the

191
00:10:31,510 --> 00:10:27,710
ultraviolet that kind of thing will it

192
00:10:33,730 --> 00:10:31,520
last a long time so those were the kind

193
00:10:39,620 --> 00:10:33,740
of tests results that we had to

194
00:10:44,420 --> 00:10:42,260
Carolyn Greiner and Mary Helen Johnston

195
00:10:46,340 --> 00:10:44,430
and I work fairly close together

196
00:10:49,430 --> 00:10:46,350
although long different things we

197
00:10:53,120 --> 00:10:49,440
decided we had put enough experiments

198
00:10:59,060 --> 00:10:53,130
together that we could actually you know

199
00:11:01,430 --> 00:10:59,070
try to operate them and we in a semi

200
00:11:03,410 --> 00:11:01,440
closed environment so to speak it got a

201
00:11:06,320 --> 00:11:03,420
lot of publicity and we had our own

202
00:11:09,500 --> 00:11:06,330
experiments which we tried out and

203
00:11:12,290 --> 00:11:09,510
operate that and we had some technicians

204
00:11:14,330 --> 00:11:12,300
that we call along to help us if we

205
00:11:17,060 --> 00:11:14,340
needed it but it was very interesting we

206
00:11:19,670 --> 00:11:17,070
got a heck of a lot of publicity out of

207
00:11:23,500 --> 00:11:19,680
that for the center then we got involved

208
00:11:29,510 --> 00:11:23,510
in diving in the tank prepared for

209
00:11:32,440 --> 00:11:29,520
possible missions I think it was you

210
00:11:36,380 --> 00:11:32,450
know being self-sufficient in that small

211
00:11:39,740 --> 00:11:36,390
environment and being prepared to do

212
00:11:42,110 --> 00:11:39,750
these things and to you know I think

213
00:11:44,180 --> 00:11:42,120
there was a follow-on group of people

214
00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:44,190
that were chosen to do the same thing

215
00:11:51,020 --> 00:11:48,090
and we did a good bit of talking to them

216
00:11:53,450 --> 00:11:51,030
and what they needed to know it was fun

217
00:11:57,710 --> 00:11:53,460
and we you know we had a lot of

218
00:12:00,410 --> 00:11:57,720
interviews with various media I mean in

219
00:12:03,080 --> 00:12:00,420
a sense it felt a little artificial you

220
00:12:05,660 --> 00:12:03,090
know you're doing this you know hey this

221
00:12:07,820 --> 00:12:05,670
is gonna be over in a week or so keep

222
00:12:14,080 --> 00:12:07,830
doing what you're doing because this is

223
00:12:23,880 --> 00:12:19,540
well I had experiments on Space Lab and

224
00:12:26,830 --> 00:12:23,890
I had a number of experiments that flew

225
00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:26,840
enjoyed those I'm really enjoyed working

226
00:12:31,330 --> 00:12:29,450
with a science it's such a clever group

227
00:12:33,940 --> 00:12:31,340
of people for the engineers are clever

228
00:12:36,420 --> 00:12:33,950
also it just seemed like everybody was

229
00:12:40,030 --> 00:12:36,430
so smart and good there's so many things

230
00:12:42,790 --> 00:12:40,040
when you're in charge of engineers you

231
00:12:46,090 --> 00:12:42,800
pretty much work with them you know it's

232
00:12:48,760 --> 00:12:46,100
sort of a lead role in a sense it's a

233
00:12:50,140 --> 00:12:48,770
scientist you just enable them because

234
00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:50,150
you're certainly not going to be out

235
00:12:57,130 --> 00:12:52,610
there telling them what to do in their

236
00:13:00,090 --> 00:12:57,140
sense and so every time you change a job

237
00:13:02,770 --> 00:13:00,100
you have to reinvent yourself to

238
00:13:08,440 --> 00:13:02,780
accommodate your job and you just have

239
00:13:15,610 --> 00:13:11,860
to me it's going out there and doing

240
00:13:19,389 --> 00:13:15,620
your best and don't let anybody stop you

241
00:13:22,960 --> 00:13:19,399
I mean hey just go through them you know

242
00:13:26,500 --> 00:13:22,970
don't don't stop you do what you have to

243
00:13:29,410 --> 00:13:26,510
do and you know you don't have to make